00:00:00:10 - 00:00:36:24 

Noah Reed 

Welcome back to this special bonus episode of the DUTCH podcast, where integrative medicine providers can expand their understanding of functional endocrinology and everyone, no matter who you are, can learn more about their body’s most complex communication system. Hi, I'm Noah Reed, vice president of sales and marketing for the DUTCH Test. And coming up on this week's bonus episode, we introduce you to the new DUTCH test, chief medical officer Dr. Jaclyn Smeaton. Dr. Smeaton is a naturopathy physician who completed her medical training in 2007 at Bastyr University in Seattle, Washington. 

 

00:00:37:08 - 00:00:55:02 

Noah Reed 

Dr. Smeaton is a well-regarded rated member of the integrative medicine community and has dedicated her career to hormone health and reproductive medicine. As a result of her endeavors, she's helped hundreds of couples conceive So stay tuned until the end for more exciting announcements about season two and the DUTCH test. 

 

00:00:55:24 - 00:01:01:08 

Mark Newman 

All right, thanks, Noah. And I'd love to welcome Jaclyn Smeaton into the show today. 

 

00:01:01:16 - 00:01:02:12 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Thank you for having me. 

 

00:01:02:15 - 00:01:22:27 

Mark Newman 

We have been around all sorts of topics talking about this and that. But right now, she is Jaclyn the fertility expert. So, I want to talk a little bit about fertility, because I know that's kind of your wheelhouse So just tell us a little bit about the average patient or patients that come to you struggling in that area. 

 

00:01:22:28 - 00:01:26:13 

Mark Newman 

What's tends to be going on and where you start digging and looking for issues? 

 

00:01:26:16 - 00:01:41:01 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Yeah. So, there is kind of a spectrum of people that are looking for help with fertility. You have couples who are just getting started and they just don't even know where to start. Like, how do I time my cycle? How do I know when I'm ovulating? Kind of all of the basic. 

 

00:01:41:01 - 00:01:43:09 

Mark Newman 

Birds and the bees. So, you actually have the birds and the bees. 

 

00:01:43:13 - 00:02:00:19 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

They typically have the birds and the bees part down OK. It's just a matter of getting the timing right and figuring out like, are we doing things right to try to conceive? And then secondarily, how do we prepare to make sure that the child we have is as healthy as possible? And that is like not something to underestimate. 

 

00:02:00:20 - 00:02:40:06 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

I mean, the studies around the power of preconception preparation are compelling to the point where when we look at outcomes for things like type two diabetes in adults, the health behaviors of the parents and grandparents, believe it or not, set epigenetics in such a way that there is statistically a heavier impact of those kind of generational decisions than that particular human with every choice they make in their own life, meaning that everything you eat, everything you do, every toxin you're exposed to has less impact than like what your parents did during puberty and during the prenatal period. 

 

00:02:40:07 - 00:02:50:15 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

So that advanced preparation is really critical and it's very cool although not common enough that couples come in wanting to be more proactive about that. 

 

00:02:50:24 - 00:03:09:14 

Mark Newman 

So on that topic, what's sort of the top of your list of things that I should do tomorrow if I'm going to be a parent or grandparent way down the road, like what are the things that are most impactful, that are like easy lifestyle things or maybe not so easy that people can shift to be healthier in that way? 

 

00:03:09:29 - 00:03:37:07 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

So, the biggest thing is, I mean, nutrition is huge. So, nutrition, the things I have people focus on because it can really feel overwhelming. Our eating a diverse range of colors, naturally existing colors get old, don't count. Right, right. Getting a wide range of colors in your diet. So, you're really getting a diverse array of antioxidants and what I call plant oxidants with my patients because that's a good way to assume that you're getting a broad range of nutrients. 

 

00:03:37:25 - 00:04:01:26 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

The other thing is just taking a simple multivitamin. I mean, there's really interesting data about if you have in the studies, these are my studies typically. But if you had mice that were exposed to a toxin like BPA, it was one of the first studies to look at this. When mice are co exposed to folic acid along with BPA, then their offspring have no negative impacts of the BPA. 

 

00:04:01:29 - 00:04:23:12 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Interesting compared to the parents who were only exposed to BPA. So, while we don't have data in humans, I get so specific to every single toxin that we cover. If you're taking a multivitamin with clean and folic acid and kind of a good range of vitamins, you're going to be covering your bases to really protect yourself from some of the like lifestyle exposures that you just can't avoid. 

 

00:04:23:16 - 00:04:23:24 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Right. 

 

00:04:24:01 - 00:04:46:13 

Mark Newman 

So if you, um, from the research that you've seen, if I live a particular lifestyle for 29 years and have a baby when I'm 30, the relative health you live in those 29 years or the relative health like right before conception and that like could you speak to like the difference I guess in the importance of those things and how it impacts what's to come. 

00:04:46:21 - 00:05:10:13 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Yeah. Great question. So, for women, the biggest period of what we would call epigenetic imprinting is actually during pre-conception the four months prior to conception and during the prenatal period. So, women need to focus on that time right before they conceive. And then during the prenatal period, which makes sense because the baby is exposed to that, you know, health status and those behaviors while they're developing. 

 

00:05:10:23 - 00:05:35:20 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

For men, it's a little bit different. The preconception period, the four months before, it's during the time that sperm are matured. And so that's a critical period, but another critical period for men that doesn't show up in literature for women is puberty. Actually, the pre pubertal growth spurt. So, this is like boys ages 11 to 13, which it's quite frightening that we trust the health of the next generation to like 12-year-old boys, right. 

 

00:05:36:00 - 00:05:59:04 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

I have kids this age group in my life and like if Baba was a really good nutrient or like from a noodles, right? You know, really nutritious, I'll be fine. Yeah. But typically, that's not an age group that has like nutrition as a pretty heavy focus. So, if you're, if you do pediatrics at all, that's a huge thing that you can do is like really find compelling ways to communicate good behaviors for that age group. 

 

00:05:59:07 - 00:06:26:16 

Mark Newman 

Well, my experience has always been that the group that's super interested in that is just kind of goes along with that whole like maybe 35, 45. But especially as you head into menopause, like I'm thinking about hormones, and then you hear things about environmental hormones, and you take steps that help. But the most critical is, you know, before you're conceived and when you're this big in the womb and the things that go on there, you know, phthalate exposure and those types of things, which is just off the radar of a lot of people. 

 

00:06:26:16 - 00:06:34:21 

Mark Newman 

So, it's fantastic that people are seeking out help from people like you before they get started. To give that next generation the best chance that they can. 

 

00:06:34:22 - 00:06:58:24 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Totally. I think that, you know, things are changing, and the conversation is changing out there, which is great because the more you can do to prep, the healthier your child's going to be. And ultimately, when we talk about like I'm a natural empathic doctor by training and one of the tenets that we live by is preventive medicine. And we always think about it as like primary prevention, where it's what do you do every day to prevent disease development later in life? 

 

00:06:59:02 - 00:07:08:08 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

But this is like true transforming Chanel prevention, where you're producing the next generation to be healthier than you could ever be. You know, that's one the potential set, right? 

 

00:07:08:08 - 00:07:19:20 

Mark Newman 

Which is kind of crazy when patients come to you at any stage that you're you're helping to fix problems that maybe started before they were even conceived, which is how deep, you know, some of those things are. 

 

00:07:19:20 - 00:07:20:00 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Yeah. 

 

00:07:20:06 - 00:07:32:20 

Mark Newman 

But let's go to our sort of sweet spot, which is hormones. When hormones are at play with someone's issues in terms of struggling with fertility, like what does that tend to look like? How does that manifest itself? 

 

00:07:33:10 - 00:07:49:27 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

So, hormones are very often at play. Obviously, they're critical to have solid fertility. You have to have a well-regulated menstrual cycle that's predictable. And we have the importance of hormones. I mean, the whole reason why estrogen and progesterone exist primarily as. 

 

00:07:50:13 - 00:07:52:01 

Mark Newman 

Projects in her own right. 

 

00:07:52:01 - 00:08:15:26 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Progesterone. Right. Gestation in favor of like supporting gestation. So, you know, you have the estrogens which the the primary intent is to you know, they're made by ovaries. They help to produce follicles and mature follicles and they help to thicken the lining of the endometrial. And they also help make cervical mucus, which is critical for sperm to be able to swim to where they need to fertilize. 

 

00:08:15:26 - 00:08:47:24 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

So, estrogen has some really important fertility related effects within the body. Progesterone also helps you not shed the lining of your uterus, and that's obviously a critical hormone to support pregnancy. And if it's too low, you can have pregnancy losses. The hormone balance is really important and there's a ton of nuances to look at. But at the very beginning, when it comes to evaluating women, you know, typically I start with serum hormone testing because that's where the literature is for fertility evaluation. 

 

00:08:48:01 - 00:09:11:14 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

And we want to measure cycle day three hormones, and I say cycle day 21, but it's really seven days after ovulation. So, for a cycle that's not 28 days you might need to shift that cycle. Day 21, you look at progesterone and cycle day three, which is kind of a baseline measure. We look at pretty much everything else, and that's where you would pick up things like Are there challenges to ovarian reserve? 

 

00:09:13:01 - 00:09:21:20 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Which is really the main thing you look at. You also can pick up like LH and FSA age ratios that might indicate something like PCOS going on. 

 

00:09:22:01 - 00:09:26:22 

Mark Newman 

So, LH FSA age anti-malaria and hormone, what else is part of that battery? 

 

00:09:26:23 - 00:09:56:05 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Yeah, anti-malaria and hormone estradiol. And then I typically will run like three in total testosterone and DHEA sulfate as well. OK, which is a little bit more of a secondary task. But I like to collect everything all at once. But women think mean we generally we think about testosterone as being a male hormone. I know you guys understand the criticality of testosterone for women too, but it is really important for fertility because without testosterone and androgens around, eggs won't mature properly. 

00:09:56:13 - 00:10:03:13 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

And so, it actually low androgens can be a major cause of poor ovarian reserve and poor egg quality. 

 

00:10:04:17 - 00:10:22:02 

Mark Newman 

So not to get derailed and pick at that and get off on a rabbit trail, but if you have a patient with low androgens, is it as easy to solve as just a little DHEA or just adding some into that? Or do you actually need to figure out a way to make her make more androgen, so to speak? 

 

00:10:22:11 - 00:10:43:24 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

That's a great question. I mean, that depends upon the approach of the clinician. There is substantial data out there showing that testosterone replacement and DHEA replacement improve quality. So, that's really the first line defense. Testosterone is not used so much clinically due to concerns of providing really too much androgen effect in case the woman does get pregnant and it's a female, right? 

 

00:10:44:04 - 00:11:04:11 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

So, DHEA is used more commonly because it allows the body to have a little bit of control over conversion. But there's a lot of data showing it's it's a pretty high dose of 25 milligrams three times daily. OK, that's utilized that there's dozens of studies supporting that use. And it's actually the top used kind of natural therapeutic in the world for fertility support. 

 

00:11:04:15 - 00:11:18:05 

Mark Newman 

Oh, interesting. So, you're sort of general first pass is to look at day three hormones and serum progesterone on day 21. Like when do you shift into a mode where you want to look a little bit deeper and maybe do some DUTCH testing? 

 

00:11:18:15 - 00:11:54:26 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Great question. So, I use a lot of DUTCH testing in my fertility clients. So, I like the DUTCH complete report I use it a lot. I'll talk about some of my favorite points on it. And then I also use a cycle map. So, the cycle map I find really helpful if I can talk about that first in cases where serum results don't line up with a clinical picture, that's one of the times that I take a look at that, and I've had instances I wish I could actually show them for, you know, for everyone watching where there's this one case, for example, that came up where my patient had a lot of signs of low 

 

00:11:54:26 - 00:11:59:10 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

estrogen but when I ran her serum levels, it was actually quite elevated. 

 

00:11:59:18 - 00:12:00:15 

Mark Newman 

And then three years. 

 

00:12:00:15 - 00:12:23:12 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Ago, D-3 estrogen was quite high. And so, you know, she also had endometriosis, us as a family history of endo, she had signs and symptoms of normal. And her OB had kind of presumptively been treating it, you know, thinking that's probably what she needed. And so, when I saw that high estrogen, it kind of aligned with that endometriosis picture. 

 

00:12:23:24 - 00:12:49:11 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

And so, I ended up using therapeutics to help lower estrogen for her. And she did terrible. In fact, she already had some cycle irregularity, but it got so much worse. And so, I knew that the serum couldn't be the whole picture. And what I ran a cycle map on her. Interestingly enough, every other day she was like tanked out low on estrogen except for day three where she was elevated compared to the normal range. 

 

00:12:49:11 - 00:13:06:28 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

And so, what I had given her, like Dima, for example, was having a terrible effect because that lowers total circulating estrogen. Right. And I was making her problem much, much worse based upon serum results and never would have gotten that information unless I had taken a look at other time points in her cycle. 

 

00:13:07:15 - 00:13:14:16 

Mark Newman 

So just to dig into that a little bit, what what sort of approach do you take with someone who has insufficient estrogen that's trying to make a baby? 

 

00:13:15:12 - 00:13:39:21 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

There's a lot of botanicals that can support the use. And I love botanical medicine. So, black cohosh, red clover, there's a lot of phyto estrogenic compounds, even soy consumption, which is definitely controversial but does have substantial data to help improve estrogen effect. The other thing I think about is the communication along the HBO axis. And so, I like Vitacost a lot for balancing. 

 

00:13:39:21 - 00:13:49:17 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

And people think of it really as a progesterone supportive herb, but it doesn't have progestin genic effects. What it does is it's kind of like a general support for that pathway. 

 

00:13:49:24 - 00:13:50:18 

Mark Newman 

That's Chase Berry. 

 

00:13:50:25 - 00:14:14:17 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Yeah. Tasty Berry. Yeah. And then so that can really help. And then the other piece that I think about for estrogen support is antioxidants, believe it or not, and many different hormones end up depleting or being low. Progesterone is the same in women who aren't consuming enough antioxidants in their diet. And so that's another kind of foundation piece is like, do you have cholesterol? 

 

00:14:15:00 - 00:14:22:15 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

You know, are you making enough cholesterol to for those building block for hormones? And do you have high levels of oxidative stress or not? 

 

00:14:22:25 - 00:14:28:03 

Mark Newman 

OK, so you're looking at the eight hydroxy the oxidative stress marker for your fertility patients. 

 

00:14:28:04 - 00:14:42:16 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Yeah, ACG is like my favorite kind of surprise bonus marker that we get when we run one of the DUTCH panels because it does give you a clue into a patient's level of oxidative stress to actually go on. 

 

00:14:44:19 - 00:14:45:20 

Mark Newman 

Eight hydroxy dioxin. 

 

00:14:45:29 - 00:14:46:10 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Is one of. 

 

00:14:47:02 - 00:14:49:11 

Mark Newman 

My favorite wonders. I like to make Noah say it on the spot. 

 

00:14:49:18 - 00:14:55:08 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

I normally do fine with saying I don't know, being videoed, right. Harder to say right on your on a memory. Hey. 

00:14:55:09 - 00:15:09:05 

Mark Newman 

Amen. So, tell me, paint a picture of the types of patterns that you're sort of looking for to say, OK, when I see this estrogen and progesterone pattern on a cycle map specifically, this is what it means to me, and this is what I do about it. 

 

00:15:09:09 - 00:15:35:02 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Great. So, I think one of the more common is progesterone low rate that can exist whether estrogen is high or low. But I see low progesterone a lot or sub optimal. So, on serum and I like how the test actually puts us there equivalent in there so you can get an idea of that. The normal range for progesterone in serum is considered above ten with most you know, textbooks. 

 

00:15:35:08 - 00:15:42:21 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Some say above six indicates ovulation. But when it comes to fertility, over 15 has significantly improved outcomes. 

 

00:15:42:26 - 00:15:49:27 

Mark Newman 

So, the fact that you're ovulating and the fact that you want to have a baby are two maybe different things in terms of like the levels you need to see. 

 

00:15:49:28 - 00:16:11:01 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Totally. Yeah, right. And so yeah, it's a matter I use the conversation a lot with my patients of normal versus optimal, right? And I think that's what transforms a lot of people's fertility is actually using a different criteria to look at things that are quote unquote good enough, right. To conceive in this day and age. So, low progesterone is one that I see a lot. 

 

00:16:11:01 - 00:16:35:05 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

And while progesterone replacement is an option through something like a progesterone cream or a suppository, even oral micronized progesterone, it's not my first go to and I think that's one point that I love to teach about because it is more of a Band-Aid than fixing the root cause. And again, low progesterone almost always correlates with high levels of oxidative stress. 

 

00:16:35:14 - 00:16:57:15 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

So low progesterone should be a marker that there's functionally something wrong. And high oxidative stress is not just a problem for progesterone. It's going to impact egg quality, embryo quality, your risk of pre-eclampsia. The health of the offspring like progesterone is a really critical marker you know, not just to get pregnant, but in order to have a healthy baby. 

 

00:16:57:22 - 00:16:59:29 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

And so, I really like to fix that at the root cause. 

 

00:17:00:19 - 00:17:21:12 

Mark Newman 

Then I'm assuming a pretty different approach, if you like. When you look at a cycle map, the thing I really like about it is sometimes you get that in-between number. So, on a single day like, well, either you don't ovulate, and your adrenal production of progesterone is a little higher than normal, or you're ovulating and making insufficient progesterone, but it's ambiguous in a one-day test. 

 

00:17:21:12 - 00:17:39:05 

Mark Newman 

So, when I look at a cycle map and you see the bump following, you know, the ovulating peak, you know, OK, that's likely ovulation, but insufficient progesterone. So, for you, how how does the treatment differ in someone who just flat out not ovulating as opposed to someone who's ovulating but making insufficient progesterone? 

 

00:17:39:19 - 00:17:53:28 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Great question. So, yeah, there's ovulation with insufficient progesterone. The other thing you can pick up on a cycle map is the timing of ovulation. And does it correlate with what the patient think it thinks it does. So, we didn't bring that up, but that's the other one I was on there that curve, like what date is it start on? 

 

00:17:53:28 - 00:18:14:25 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

And does it match production of cervical mucus for the patient and kind of when they think they ovulated? So, it can be really confirmatory like if they're charting with temperature and cervical mucus, it's a great confirmation of like is your own personal interpretation of your charts, correct? Right, right. But if someone's really flatlined, typically there is something else going on. 

 

00:18:14:25 - 00:18:42:22 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

So, an ovulation, you've got to think about what the underlying root cause is of that most often it's like a hypothalamic disorder where the hypothalamus is not functioning optimally. And so, you get, and you can pick this up with serum testing to like if you see an ovulation, what you'd expect to see is very low LH phosphate and we don't really measure gonadotropin releasing hormone. 

 

00:18:42:22 - 00:19:12:13 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

But if you did, you'd expect that to be low as well, right? So, you typically see this pattern of like low estrogen, low progesterone, right? And then low LH and MSH and believe it or not, even in conventional circles, do you already know the biggest cause of that? What's up for women stress? Oh, yeah. So, they see it in women that are under high levels of emotional stress that they see it like in instances of war, for example, a lot of women lose their menstrual cycle or times of stress, but also biochemical stress. 

 

00:19:12:22 - 00:19:32:06 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

So, women who are athletes who don't supply adequate caloric nutrition, that puts a biological stress on the body. So, really any kind of stress can trigger that. And it's really interesting because I work with a lot of women who present with that presentation, but when you ask them, they don't identify as being stressed. 

 

00:19:32:08 - 00:19:32:17 

Mark Newman 

Right. 

 

00:19:32:26 - 00:19:50:01 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

And then you have to dig a little deeper to say, OK, maybe I need to look at their access function. Maybe they don't realize that that is off or is that that they have chronic inflammation with some kind of like infection they don't know about or that leads you down that road. So, that is empowered to dove. 

 

00:19:50:01 - 00:19:55:27 

Mark Newman 

A little bit. There is a test where you could look at the cycle map and the cortisol picture all in one would be amazing. 

00:19:56:10 - 00:20:03:03 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

No, but I do I use a lot of adrenal evaluation, measuring cortisol to try to get to the root of that. 

 

00:20:03:03 - 00:20:24:08 

Mark Newman 

So, and you and your understanding of that, because this has been, I think a point of confusion in our industry is that when I look at my steroid pathway, I've got cholesterol, progesterone, cortisol. So, there's this story that makes sense to your brain that if I'm stressed and I'm making cortisol and sort of stealing that progesterone, which would be one interpretation as opposed to I'm stressed. 

 

00:20:24:12 - 00:20:39:28 

Mark Newman 

And the feedback from those stress markers on my brain is telling my brain you know, if we're being invaded, it's not time to make a baby. And so, the shutdown of those systems as opposed to the actual sort of sucking away of the cortisol because of the stress from the progesterone where what is the. 

 

00:20:39:28 - 00:20:41:02 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Pregnant alone shunt? 

 

00:20:41:09 - 00:20:47:27 

Mark Newman 

What is the proper interpretation of like a stress working on the brain or is it stealing the hormone away? 

 

00:20:48:06 - 00:21:06:07 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

So, from the research I've done, there's like not data to support that. There is like a shunting or a shortage of pregnant alone available to build both cortisol and progesterone. That's not how things seem to work. If you want to really dove in. There's a great resource called Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers. Have you read that book? 

 

00:21:06:08 - 00:21:07:06 

Mark Newman 

No, I haven't. Oh, my. 

 

00:21:07:06 - 00:21:29:20 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Familiar with it, but I am honestly going to send it to you after today. It's all about how stress hormones impact every single different aspect of health each chapter is a different system of the body, and Sapolsky goes into depth about the data that exists around, you know, everything that cardiovascular, blood sugar, everything but when it comes to reproduction, the story's a little bit more complex. 

 

00:21:29:25 - 00:21:55:26 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

One, there is dysregulation because, you know, just like you have the HP oh and the access you have these HP in common, right? So, dysfunction in the hypothalamus and pituitary gland can impact other areas, just like when thyroid affected, it affects other glandular function. Right. But there's also a tissue effect in the testes, in the ovaries, in the uterus. 

 

00:21:55:26 - 00:22:18:14 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Endometriosis, where when there are elevated, you know, cortisol and different adrenaline hormones, it changes receptors at the tissues right. And leaves them less responsive to the brain signaling. And so, it'll actually turn down the volume at the end organ and make it less able to respond to the brain signaling. 

 

00:22:18:23 - 00:22:28:17 

Mark Newman 

Well, there has been a lot of really good information that I'm sure both providers and patients will find really interesting and helpful, particularly if they're struggling on that front. So, thanks for joining us today. 

 

00:22:28:19 - 00:22:29:16 

Jaclyn Smeaton 

Thank you for having me. 

00:22:30:06 - 00:22:52:21 

Noah Reed 

Thanks again for joining us on this week's episode and welcome Dr. Smeaton to the DUTCH team. We are so excited to have you join our clinical and education team and look forward to the exciting things you'll help us create to help our providers understand the DUTCH test. Go to DUTCH Test dot com and subscribe to the DUTCH Digest so that you will be in the know about when Season two will be launched. 

 

00:22:52:29 - 00:23:10:20 

Noah Reed 

We have some really big things that will be happening in the next few months, and you won't want to miss out. Dr. Smeaton will be joining us as the host of the DUTCH podcast in Season two, and we're already starting production and can't wait to bring you more hormone and testing insights in the near future. Until next time.